What a headache. I should leave it at that and move on from this craziness, but here it goes...
This is indeed a sad ordeal that could have been avoided with proper catechesis. The monsignor at the parish claims that this is no big deal, the parishioners are upset and letting it be known that this is an every week sort of thing and that bloggers are just looking for hits. Now I'm not saying I didn't think this would not eventually draw hits, but primarily we all know in order to stop a problem the problem needs to be made known, even by some jerk Pharisee 873 miles away in the Cream City.
I don't think its worth while to attack the defenders like Deacon Kandra, the parishioners or even the monsignor, its just a waste of time. When it comes down to it what is happening is a matter of some or even many of our brothers and sisters in the faith understanding the Mass in its purpose and application.
I'm not against the wearing of costumes to Holy Mass for instance on All Saints day. Even at St. Stans children dress up as the saints, but I do think it obvious that a line is being crossed when you profane something by equating the secular gimmicks with the ancient faith. Are these costumes going to evoke love of God like in how saintly garb may remind us?
The dumbing down of the liturgy is a concern. One of the parishioners thought it ok because it would one day lead the children to continue going to Mass if now we make it fun for them. Haven't the gimmicks all been tried to retain the youth? What are the fruits of this event Catholicism? I think its a worthwhile question to examine how these innovations effect the thinking of the faithful. To me if we don't take things seriously from the beginning why should they take it seriously later. If its a matter of entertainment they will run to the heretical sects of Protestantism, they are good at entertaining and warm feelings.
Before 1963 there was no such thing as children's Mass or a life teen Mass. What is the focus, are we not saying that the focus of these things is on the people, and the glory of God must bend its knee to be compatible with the days norms? Children are not as dumb as some seem to think. Considering over half of the parishioners at St. Stans are under 30, and the back 10 pews are full of children, there is no need for a children's mass because that is not what Mass is about. Even having the choir behind the Altar (I'm thinking of you St. Als) starts to confuse the purpose of why Mass is said, not to entertain but to bring about the graces that now, as then, flow from the Holy Sacrifice that is once and for all offered once again upon the altar.
I get it that the intentions to keep the children excited are genuine and even praise worthy, but time and place. Have the star wars party after Mass, but don't profane this sacred rite of the church with the mundane. If you want to use star wars in your homily do so, but you don't need to make a whole gimmick to surround it. What religion are we taking part in? Do we know where we are when the consecration takes place? Where is our focus? Have we asked if this action will glorify God before we make the decision to go ahead with it? Good intentions don't necessarily equate to prudent actions.
And just a note to those that are upset and taking it out on Mr. Hitchborn that this has gone viral, perhaps there is a reason that is worth looking into. Mr. Hitchborn and the rest of us don't hate you and don't want to be the rain on your sunny day, but it is incumbent upon us to make it clear that there is something seriously going wrong here, whether the intentions are good or not. Please realize this before you want to yell at us for not being understanding or for "trolling" your parish. We desire one thing, the glorification of God, which can be had objectively. Below I have posted a video from Michael Davies which I do hope will bring to you a greater understanding of what Mass is.
So Alice von Hildebrand has been busy over the last month or so... so i figured it was time to share some of her endevors with anyone intersted.
A quick thank you to Eric Metaxas for having her for a series of 3 interviews beginning this Tuesday. They are all worth you time:
When Mr. Metaxas airs the 3rd part of the interview (including their disagreement over Luther's revolt) I will post it here as well
Also, Michael Voris of Church Militant did a series of interviews with this good lady back in December which were just released. Here are a few snippets they released from the interviews, but it is worth getting a free 15 day trial to listen to the totality of the interviews
Oh and Dr. John Rao recently made an appeal to support the Roman Forum which was in part begun with the help of professor Dietrich von Hildebrand. You can read it HERE
Update 4: The Parish priest provides context. I think its really just a matter of being clueless at this point about what the Mass is. Kids in the sanctuary, processing with father for no liturgical purpose, wearing secular costumes having nothing to do with the life of the Church. But I'm just a buzz kill here. Hey, if this is what it takes to keep those kids coming back in their teens... well then what Church are we a part of again?
Update 3: A parishioner [?] of the Church responded to the Lepanto story as can be seen below. And as a side note at St. Stans we too allow children to dress as saints on all saints day, but to dress as star wars characters is another thing (at least to me, but to each his own I guess):
Update 2: Deacon Kandra accuses us of jumping to conclusions. But hey, some people would say he was couragous in defending sacralidge. Hitchborn and Voris already responded to this. Read the whole of it HERE
Hat tip to Ben Yanke of NLM on this one. They deleted it from the Brooklyn diocese facebook account once people started looking into it. I dont know if it is still on or not, but Lord willing they will reconsider.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...Sacrilege Wars!Update: The Diocese of Brooklyn now deleted the post. But...
Posted by Ben Yanke on Tuesday, January 26, 2016
These videos are not apologetics but appeals to the people putting on the March to tighten the reigns before the whole thing falls apart because of indifference to fundimental issues, the first of which being the protestant error of welcoming contraception
Voris does a great job in both so I wont comment further. The next part of the series will focus on the apologetical approaches to the issue of contraception
Ok so, first it is worth listening to Mike Church's radio show in the morning, however if you stream it on Youtube you will notice some oddities from the commentators. The loud ones are part of the SSPX resistance. (aka the Williamson split off)
One of them said that one day the popes after the council will be recognized as anti-popes, this after he confirmed that Paul VI was a valid Pope. Then when called on it he said he didn't have to take a postilion on sedevacantism because other saints have said similar things.
Sure, St. Vincent Ferrer made comments similar, but this was also before Vatican I which defined the perpetuity of the Petrine office.
Evangelizing is not a traddie specific issue. The whole Church struggles with this because She no longer knows who she is or what Her mission is. Her leaders are content and willing to forgo truth all too often to appear good in the eyes of men. We don't mention the necessity of the Church, or we play word games like "well, maybe so and so is called to the church, but such and such will be ok if God wills he remain outside the Church." What are we doing here guys?
We shot ourselves in the foot from the start. Until the Church and her leaders and even people (the sheep that will have sheep) are desirous of bringing people into the fold in general for a real reason other than feelings or preferences we are only kidding ourselves.
I don't think anyone ever said introducing the ancient rite would be a quick fix to all the Churches ills. Or that attendance would just magically be there. Or even that effort to evangelize would be better in the ancient rite parishes. Lets be real, most parishes are organ donors for the rich protestant sects that will sell magic zippers and strings to fulfill fuzzy warm feelings and attract people.
How will the ancient rite not just survive but prosper? I don't have a crystal ball. Evangelize, sure but there is more than one way to skin a cat in the evangelization game (I know its not a game, but oh well). We will be realistic in the matter of growing the parishes but most people don't know that the ancient rite often faces different barriers to propagation, and therefore evangelization, than the ordinary form. I will list a few below:
First realize that Summorum Pontificum has not even reached its 10 year mark. What exactly were the expectations that people had for the ten year mark? If it doesn't meet so and so's thinking then its demise is at hand? I'm confused. What are we talking about here? Ten years in and there is still much resistance or just complacency on the ancient rite as a whole by the hierarchy and their staffers. Sure you may get one or two dioceses that are welcoming, but elsewhere you are almost lucky to get a lukewarm reception. Ten years in and somehow we think that if we don't have thousands of parishes and hundreds of thousands of Catholics in the ancient rite pews somehow we are failing and we will meet our end soon? Its been less then ten years! Where was St. Francis de Sales less then ten years into his counter cultural crusade?
Most of the parishes that get designated as latin mass sites are in the ghetto. Not to say we don't love a challenge of reforming a broken area (look at how long it took to fix up St. John Cantius in Chicago and the area surrounding). However, it is a challenge in that people that are quite justly concerned with crime might be put off by the location. Its convenience to them as being a safe place is an issue. Think of the FSSP apostolate in Arizona that witnessed the death of Fr. Walker last year. Location matters, and the only way to make things better is to set up shop and roll with the punches that are sure to come with patience as Cantius did and we have.
Time is another issue. Sure you might have a Latin Mass only parish in your diocese that offers Mass daily, but this is very limited. If, instead, you have a diocesan priest saying Mass its not likely that the Mass time of the ancient rite will be convenient for those interested. Even Fr. Z mentioned this in his take on the article. If the priests don't make the effort along with the laity we might as well be doing the hokey pokey. Does the ancient rite matter? Or is it just some oddity we can make room for once a month or around 3pm on Sunday?
The "holier than thou" stigma is another battle that is consistently fought. When people are asked if they are interested in assisting at the ancient rite generally there are two responses but one is that the people there think too highly of themselves and are hypocrites. First, duh people are sinners, if they didn't screw up they wouldn't need the Church to avoid Gehenna. Second, sure there are goofy people that go to the ancient rite, people are people, odd - note: I for one am odd admittedly. But you can find bad actors everywhere with intentions that are holier than though, or even worse indifferent to truth (speaking to the normalists here). Most people are just like you and me, screw-ups trying to get better one day at a time, Thanks be to God!
Language is another barrier, but this can be triumphed by explaining that Mass is not said to us but to the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit. Its an act of supreme dignity befitting an exulted and proper and prized language as the Jews continue today to learn and use Hebrew in their rabbinical studies. God is worth the exception to the mundane in everything!
Beauty is not prized in a rotting culture. Only sex sells in the culture we live in unfortunately. You need to rewire minds by challenging the mundane. Sure we can have the beauty but if Mass is a matter of entertaining ourselves its not the new show on Fox or Netflix this week or next. The patient nudge helps here, but it takes time.
Hierarchy use of the rite may well be growing slowly, and thanks be to God for that gift! But this is so, so limited in its application. If the hierarchy does offer it there is some legitimacy provided to the rite that many often use to play it down with. It would be great if a Pope would say the rite not just privately as JPII and Benedict did, but publicly so it wasn't given the stigma of being a weird or odd antique only to be dusted off from time to time, but a living rite approved and offered even by the Pontiff, who along with his brother bishops are of the Roman rite so they should be able to say the ancient Roman rite as Archbishop Sample has said in the past. [Yes thats a run on... its a blog]
Time to evangelize correctly is also important. We don't want to rush conversion. Voris said something a while back on this that was important in that even if someone is convinced and then walks into the parish what are they walking into? When you assist at the ancient rite you not only have to explain to prospective converts God, Jesus, and the Church, but you have to go a step farther and talk about the importance of liturgy in the Churches life and that takes time. Going once to the ancient rite is a start but it is often confusing and frightening especially if you are alone. So yes people should be made available to help with the new comers to some extent, but they need also to be willing to challenge themselves to take in the ancient rite for a period to become acquainted with it. Try it for two months and then make up your mind is a good rule of thumb (I still need to write that book).
Its existence is hardly known to many of the faithful out there. Don't assume that the majority of Mass going Catholics know about the Extraordinary Form since most have no access to it or it is not given much if any publicity on an archdiocese wide level. Now to be sure its the same for the Eastern rites who receive little to no publicity, but we are talking about the Roman rite. How much publicity does it deserve in comparison to other parishes is a matter of prudence and I don't know exactly what to say on this other than its existence is still hush hush to some extent.
The preference idea is another issue. Until this idea of I prefer X Mass to Y Mass because of subjective reason A, B or C we are only wasting time chasing Giambi for the long ball draw, while our fundamentals suffer. Selecting one Mass over the other should solely be a matter of what is the most important thing and the focus of the Mass? Is the glory of God the most important thing or the community? Is the mass dependent on the community therein or the worship given to God in the prayers, supplications, architecture and reverence? There is some improvement in the regular ordinary form parishes that deserves attention, see the Provincial Emails on the St. Alphonsus chapel restoration for more.
A not welcoming atmosphere is a common concern as well. How you fix this is tough. Some people like myself come to Mass, not for chatting or donuts but for God. I like it quite and I like to be left alone to commun with the Trinity for that hour and a half. How do you make it more welcoming? Smiles perhaps? I guess we could do better, but if the focus gets scewed from the purpose of being there there is a danger in confusing the worship of God with the placating of mans feelings. Time and place, but thats just like my opinion man.
Only old folks go there stigma or that such people are not enlightened. This is just a foolish take and if people take the time to actually come they will see its not so.
TLM only parish for all diocese. Controlling the spreading of the ancient rite is a concern, but perhaps its a matter of prudence. As always pray for the Archbishop and his staff that they do the Lord's will in all things no matter what. (Even if its not helpful to us at the moment)
We also do become comfortable and thus complacency sets in because we do have a nice community that is growing the old fashioned way. I would like to start an evangelization group to go out to the peripheries like our Holy Father has asked to call back in the lost sheep and comfort the flock now-in. Groups like the St. Paul street evanelization teams are an idea that could be helpful, but there is a language barrier that exists in the areas that the ancient rite generally finds itself so that has to be taken into account.
Emotionally charged experiences (subjectivism) are a hallmark of Protestant communities and frankly this entertainment factor is hard to beat because what they call a religious experience is at best the first step in the life of a soul called home to Christ and many are like crack addicts wanting that to continue. The saints tell us otherwise, that we must decrease and He must increase. We should expect the warm feelings to fade and our reliance on Christ to increase without the comforts we once experienced. The ancient rite fosters the aesthetics but it also reminds that creature comforts like an easy going liturgy are not the focus so much as God is.
In all I dont think people should feel persecuted for being part of the ancient rite. Whether the Shrine in Chicago should be knocked down or not is not a matter of a conspiracy. Fires happen, so too if it is not God's will that the ancient rite should thrive then we should be grateful to God that His will be done first. Do what you can with the resources you have and let God take care of the rest. Work with your brothers and sisters in the ordinary form and the eastern rites, they have perspectives that will prove helpful.
Well that was a long post and probably not helpful in the least, but I thought it fun to write and thank Msgr Pope for his real concern and call on all to bring the Catholic faith to the ends of the world.
What a headache. I should leave it at that and move on from this craziness, but here it goes...
