Second Update: Fr. Ripperger; Update from Feser: Msgr Swetland finds no place at the Inn for Robert Spencer and Jihad Watch

In the files of novelty for the masses a new file was just created, booked and filed away.  Monsignor Swetland of EWTN fame and the head of Donnelly college, was recently in a debate with Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch (himself a Melkite - Eastern Catholic).

The whole article can be had HERE


"Msgr. Swetland contends that statements of recent Popes to the effect that Islam is a religion of peace fall into the category of teachings to which Catholics must give “religious assent,” as per the quotation below from the Second Vatican Council document Lumen Gentium.

If Msgr. Swetland is correct, then I am, as he puts it, “a dissenter from the papal magisterium.” So also, then, would be millions of other Catholics, including Catholics from the Middle East who have borne the brunt of Muslim persecution of Christians and know what Islam teaches, such as the gentleman from Lebanon who phoned in to the Mariani Show during my discussion with Msgr. Swetland. If Msgr. Swetland is correct, then Catholics must affirm that Islam is a religion of peace as part and parcel of being Catholic, and the Catholic Church will be requiring that its faithful affirm the truth of what is an obvious and egregious falsehood, as I demonstrated here and in many other places.

If Msgr. Swetland is correct, and it is Church teaching that all Catholics must accept that Islam is a religion of peace, then the Catholic hierarchy will have demonstrated that it does not have the authority or reliability in discerning and transmitting the truth that it claims to have; Papal claims to speak in the name of Christ will be eviscerated; and the Catholic Church as a whole exposed as a fraud...

It is very important for all believers that the authentic teaching of the Church be clear so that we may know the truth and attempt to live it to the full. I submit that there is a serious difference between the repeated magisterial teachings of the Church and the teaching of Robert Spencer in this area. For the sake of all, this situation needs to be clarified. "



Quite the interesting time for Msgr Swetland to be touting the Religion of Peace Dogma in the name of the Church.  It was just last week that Abp Pozzo noted once again (cause Ratzinger had said this before) that the documents related to inter religious and ecumenical relations are not dogmatic, but pastoral letters which could never be bound on the Church as a whole because they are novel and do not relate to a matter of faith or morals. One Peter Five did a sum of this the other day which you can find HERE.

I seem to remember that every time traditional Catholic teachings that dealt with matters in relation to Jews or Muslims we are told constantly that we must approach it in the light of Nostra Aetate, as if a one size fits all definition fits reality.

Perhaps Msgr Swetland can spend a sabbatical in Iraq and Syria with his brother priests to experience non heretical Orthodox Islam?  Just saying... but conservative Catholicism and EWTN approved?!

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An excellent follow up from the Thomist Edward Feser HERE

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Fr. Chad Ripperger also addressed this question and the question about whether Allah is the same God we as Christians worship in the following talk at the 58 min 50 second mark about.  His response is different than Edward Feser who is also a Thomist on the latter issue:

What was Father Hardon's role at Vatican II

There were so many players in the work of Vatican II for better or for worse. Father Hardon, being a Jesuit, was obedient to his his vows in complete obedience to the Petrine Office.

Give a listen to the short 2 min clip and if you are scandalized at all I would ask that you realize the context is similar to Pope Leo XIII doing everything he could to reconcile the Anglicans in his time.

Modify the Orendi to Change the Credendi

Source

It is quite amazing how the material (I’m being nice) heretics at the synod have orchestrated a grand attempted takeover.  The shades of the first and second sessions of the Second Vatican Council and the similar attempt (and lets be real the success) to push through today’s novelties is stunning!  However, unlike the council in which the ultramontanists like Lefebvre only established the International group of Fathers to go toe to toe with the Bea and Suenen during the council took effect only during the second session and had little to no effect until later on. Cardinals Pell, Burke, Mueller, et. al, have effectively (for now) countered the Modernist forces [now being called Blue Thursday].

But it was quite interesting to read what Cardinal Burke had to say in his interview the other day:

“The lex orandi is always bound to the lex credendi. If someone does not pray well, then he does not believe well and therefore he does not behave well. When I go to celebrate the Traditional Mass, for example, I see so many beautiful young families with so many children. I do not believe that these families do not have problems, but it is evident that they have more strength to confront them. This has to say something. The liturgy is the most perfect and most complete expression of our life in Christ, and when all of this is lessened or is betrayed every aspect of the life of the faithful is harmed”

 The push to change the “discipline of no communion for the divorced and remarried or to soften the line about active homosexuals being affirmed in their error [see Homoheresy] is just another continuation of changing wording to satisfy the world (just see the video about Pope Paul VI from the other day I posted). But will changing the wording maintain the practice or will the practice change?  Of course it will change!

Historians of the Second Vatican Council make it clear that the discussion on the Liturgy, which was the first document of the council to be promulgated, was supposed to be the last thing discussed [read Mattei’s book on the council for instance]. But the modernist forces lead by Bea, and even to some extent Montini, knew that to accomplish a shift of what the church is they had to modify the orendi.  The Mass is the common activity (much more than an activity of course) of all Catholics and to modify it they could adjust the doctrine in an indirect way.  Modernists are not interested in formally changing doctrine, that’s too sticky and the Holy Spirit protects that, rather they have undertaken an end around to accomplish their goals, by changing the practice they have modified the faith to something more of their own heart’s desire [see Fabian Socialists].

To give another example look at how the synod is not using Latin to promulgate the documents coming out.  The modernists know that Latin being a dead language cannot be manipulated to fit their ends in an end around way, but modern language which is relative (more and more so every day) can be used to make statements that seem both orthodox and heterodox.  You can also see this in how Benedict put a stop to the neocatechumenal way mass after he was advised by the aforementioned Cardinal Burke.  Yet, under the Franciscan Pontificate the neocatechumenal movement is back underway.  So there is more double speak for you, and this should make you ask the question of if the neocatechumenal mass was first condemned, but then approved what about the novus ordo missae?  People love to say that you can’t call into question the new mass because its under the protection of the Holy Spirit.  I think I will let you read or listen to some Michael Davies on that.

The Point is don’t let the word “Discipline” be stretched so far by conservatives or liberals to accomplish their goals.  Just because something is a discipline like celibacy or communion only for those in a state of grace doesn’t mean it can or should change. 

As Chesterton put it: “Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”  The Cardinals will continue to move the Overton Window so they can retreat yet still make up some ground which they did not have before.  Their initial attempt failed but the orendi is being affected because people are confused, use social media to counter the revolutionaries.

+Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces, Pray for Us!+

an interesting video from Voris:

+JMJ+

Ten Days of Davies: Vatican II talks (Part II)

Vatican II - Part 3 of 4 - The Protestant Connection
Progressives were eager to work together with Protestants. This meant that Protestant observers of the Council often played not only a role but even a determining role in its sessions. Michael Davies discusses the Protestants in question, their Catholic allies, and the specific influences they had. Taken from: My End is My Beginning: The Analogy of Contemporary Christianity





Vatican II - Part 4 of 4 - The Liturgical Revolution
Michael Davies is most known for his work on the liturgical revolution. Here, he summarizes how the movement for liturgical reform transmuted into the monster that it became, and then used Vatican II, the organs established to effect the reforms of Vatican II, and the "spirit of the Council" to create the new liturgy. Taken from: My End is My Beginning: The Analogy of Contemporary Christianity

 

 +JMJ+

On Profound Crisis in the Church: Roberto de Mattei (Against Normalist Notions)

The following article can be found in the 4/15 edition of The Remnant.

On Profound Crisis in the Church


(Special Report on a Lecture by

Roberto de Mattei

Roberto de Mattei)
By Vincent Chiarello
COSMOS CLUB, April 9, 2014—The stately Cosmos Club of Washington D.C., located in “Embassy Row” of our nation’s capital was the site of a recent talk by the Italian historian of religion, Roberto de Mattei. The attractive external design of the Cosmos Club is reminiscent of French la belle époque style architecture, and was constructed at the turn of the 20th century.
A crowd of more than 100, including at least four Catholic priests, attended the one-hour lecture in which de Mattei laid out the consequences of Vatican II, the expanded details of which are included in his recently published, The Second Vatican Council, an Unwritten Story.
Roberto de Mattei serves as President of the Lepanto Foundation, which, although American in its origins, maintains an office in Rome and is associated with Italian Christian organizations such as Marcia per la Vita - the March for Life.
He is the editor of the Italian journal,
Radici Cristiane (Christian Roots), and for his work with the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences, the Holy See awarded him the insignia of the Order of Saint Gregory the Great.
He is also the author of The Vicar of Christ: Between the Ordinary and the Exceptional, and teaches Church History at the European University of Rome, where he is the head of the Faculty of Historical Sciences. 
De Mattei became a focus of attention when he was recently relieved of his position at Radio Maria, a Vatican radio station, after four years. He was told by Radio Maria’s Director, Fr. 
Livio Fanzaga, the priest who hired him, that the principal reason for his dismissal was that he had not affirmed the teaching of the Magisterium of the Church (my emphasis), something that still puzzles de Mattei and many others. 
In an interview prior to his departure to the U.S., de Mattei stated that he believes that his support in gathering signatures in support of the Franciscans of the Immaculate to offer the Tridentine Mass was “not liked by certain high ecclesiastics, who asked Fr. Livio for my head.” He then added that since Vatican II, while calling for “dialogue” with separated brethren, “...they (the anti-Traditionalists in the Vatican) use a fist of iron toward those within the Church who do not want to stray from the unchangeable Tradition of the Church.” 
Why he would become a troublemaker, subversive, or even a heretic to certain members of the Vatican’s dicastri (departments) was a theme, amongst others, that he would try to explain as part of the lecture at the Cosmos Club. 
In attempting to describe the changes in the Church over the past half century, Professor de Mattei sought to connect, as a historian, not a theologian, the impact of other cataclysmic events such as the French Revolution, “the mother of all revolutions,” to changing attitudes in the Church, something that another contributor to The Remnant, Prof. John Rao, has also described. 
As a historian he could see the early evidence of those consequences as Vatican II unfolded over the arc of a half century, and which are now clearly detectable to any observer. Noticeable changes from the Church’s earlier attitudes, de Mattei emphasized, came about as the Church increasingly adopted, perhaps unwittingly, the philosophical framework of the Italian Communist, Antonio Gramsci, who claimed that Socialism/Communism would “march through the institutions,” but in a nonviolent way. Gramsci’s philosophical victory, de Matttei maintains, is in claiming that “objective truth” would overtake that of “supernatural truth,” and that religious belief would slowly be replaced by a philosophical framework in which in order to survive the Church must modernize. That transformation is described by de Mattei as “principle giving way to praxis,” a situation in which the Church has increasingly “ceased to fight” for its principles. The historical evidence of that reversal, among other accommodations with modernism, “the synthesis of all heresies,” can be found the documents of Vatican II. 
While it is fair to say, as one questioner did, that although few recall the four Constitutions of the French Republic during the Revolution, most recall at least one major historical consequence: the guillotine. De Mattei reiterated that it makes little sense to examine the documents of Vatican II in a vacuum; it is what has historically happened to the Church in the intervening half century that really matters. To de Mattei there could be no question that a “profound crisis within the Church” now engulfs it. 
Many in the audience that night were aware of the paper delivered by Walter Cardinal Kasper in February of this year to a gathering at the Consistory on the topic of the family in preparation for the Synod that will be held in the Vatican this coming October. The German Cardinal’s paper expressed his (emphasis mine) belief that there should be a willingness by the Church to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive the sacraments of the Church, including communion. As if on cue, major newspapers in the U.S. and Europe seized upon the prelate’s words to theorize that the Church was, indeed, making an effort to accommodate its principles with the modern world, a primary objective – aggiornamento – of Pope John XXIII in convoking of the Second Vatican Council. Those in the audience who wondered if de Mattei would broach that subject were not disappointed, for Kasper’s proposal came under scrutiny almost at the start of the historian’s talk. 
Referring to Cardinal Kasper’s approach as “sociological,” de Mattei described the proposal as being framed in a way that pits “Church doctrine versus real-life convictions of many Christians,” as if one were at odds with the other. Further, the end result of such “situational ethics” changes would, aside from its antithetical nature to Catholic dogma, lead most certainly to “Catholic divorce” and permission of cohabitation. Cardinal Kasper’s overall approach was, then, a plea which de Mattei described as, “...the Church must adapt to the forces of history, not history to the unchanging principles of the Church.” 
Cardinal Kasper’s novel approach to re-thinking the sacrament of marriage is a direct historical result of Vatican II’s emphasis on “pastoral orthodoxy” as being the sine qua non of Church practice, even though it was patently antithetical to accepted Church doctrine for centuries. 
For a Traditional comparison to Cardinal Kasper’s proposal, de Mattei pointed to Pope Pius XII, who defined the morality issue in marriage thus: “ Continence within and outside of marriage is a Christian value; sexual union outside the sacrament of marriage of matrimony is a grave sin.” What Kasper was proposing had eliminated those differences, which had been “what the moralists always taught,” and at the same time the German Cardinal was discarding the dogmatic teachings of the pre-Vatican II Church, a major consequence of the Council. It is hard to believe that the participants in that aggiornamento suspected anything like the Kasper proposal would ever be considered, yet alone discussed. 
In attempting to explain the apparent amnesia that now is an integral part of current Church teaching, the lecturer devoted a lengthy review of the Vatican II document, Gaudium et Spes(Joys and Hopes), which was “supposed to be the ‘first proving ground’ of the Church’s capacity to enter into dialogue with the world,” or as described by one of the participants, “the promised land of the Council.” 
Here de Mattei points an accusatory finger at the Leon-Joseph Suenens, then Cardinal Archbishop of Brussels, who during the Council deliberations was relentless in his effort to “connect the Church’s teaching to the modern world,” and “became an icon of the Second Vatican Council.” 
Historically, the primary purpose of Catholic marriage was “to give children to God,” followed by the requirements of “mutual love and respect,” but in July ‘64, Pope Paul VI approved theschema (outline or preliminary text), drafted under the supervision of Cardinal Suenens which omitted that priority and now placed “giving children to God” and “mutual love and respect” on an equal footing. It also inserted that decisions regarding marriage, which of course included the use of birth control, could be left “up to the conscience” of the couple. The dominant role of the human conscience, rather than the application of ethical rules, was a further demonstration that the Council was now being orchestrated by prelates who had an aversion to universal moral laws: individual conscience, not Church doctrine, was to be sovereign in these matters. 
When Cardinal Suenens, in an impassioned plea to the Council Fathers questioned the Church’s previous marital priority and claimed that it had been, “over-emphasized to the detriment of the marital union,” he drew an interesting analogy: “Let us avoid another Galileo trial.” At that point, enraged by the speaker’s tone Ernesto Cardinal Ruffini pounded his fist on the table and later characterized Suenens’ words as, “horrendous,” and sought them stricken from the debate. 
The Belgian’s rhetoric was so inflammatory that even the pontiff upbraided the cardinal for his “lack of judgment.” Still, efforts to defeat the proposed wording of the document failed, and on December 7, 1965 Gaudium et Spes became one of the landmark documents of the Second Vatican Council. Can anyone today point to any aspect of Catholic family life that is in any way better than it was before Gaudium et Spes? 
In his talk, Roberto de Mattei highlighted the history of some, but not all, of the baleful aspects of the Second Vatican Council and the unraveling of Church doctrine and dogma, but he has only scratched the surface. For example, the Church’s current position on ecumenism flies in the face of centuries, if not millennia, of dogma and doctrine; yet, any attempt to call attention the previous Church holdings on this matter is brushed off as medieval in outlook, if not antediluvian. 
For a more nuanced and comprehensive analysis, de Mattei’s book on Vatican II should be read by those who seek an understanding of what happened at the Council meetings – and why. Still, in ways that are incomprehensible to many of the Faithful, the Vatican’s hierarchy has plunged the Church into an abyss that has had disastrous effects; yet, any effort to connect the dots between the baleful effects of Vatican II and the current disastrous decline of the Church in many areas is considered to be almost sacrilegious. De Mattei’s treatment at Radio Maria bears witness to that condition. 
Toward the end of his talk, de Mattei quoted a French novelist who wrote, “It is necessary to live as one thinks, to avoid winding up thinking as one lives.” To Roberto de Mattei, personal knowledge and understanding are necessary in following the moral and ethical guidelines set up by the Church to avoid a chaotic and uncertain morality. That fight has in large part been lost by the withdrawal of the Catholic Church from the lists of moral combat. 
In the end, however, de Mattei believes that the Second Vatican Council was not only a historical event, but an amorphous “Spirit” that has come down over the 50 years, a “Spirit” that has emphasized practice and deemphasized doctrine, but he is firm in his conviction that Christ will see to it that this “profound crisis within the Church” will not be allowed to have its enemies prevail. Of that end de Mattei is certain. ■ 

+JMJ+

My nomination for best tweet of the year!

now some may say thats uncharitable and oversimplification but... this isnt your blog so get over yourself!

Shot to mame

Talking about the liturgy at Marquette

When I was at an early mass the other day I noticed this flyer on the confessional doors:

Some might be thinking, "But its a Jesuit speaking on the liturgy and it is about Vatican II."

I know, I know, I had a similar feeling initially just looking at it, but reading closer there seems to be some good things.

First, the decreed on the liturgy from the council is quite beautiful and only contains a few confusing things, but overall its a wonderful document!

Second the talk is being given by a member of the revising commitee that worked to bring the translation in line with the Latin 1970 missal.  He also defended the new translation among his critical peers.

Now I dont have any real plans of going, but it looks like a positive experience as compared to the one at my former parish as per Terrance.

+JMJ+

The virtual council as Benedict put it

I'm still enamored by the statement Pope Emeritus Benedict made before abdicating from the thrown of Peter, where he drew on the Second Vatican Council and how it was hijacked by the media and people within the hierarchyThe virtual council as Benedict put it in cahoots with them.

Im happy to say that I uploaded a video on Youtube which was a talk given by the one and only Michael Davies  on this very topic years before our previous Holy Father brought this up.

Enjoy! (it is a little long by the way, but very interesting).  Please say an Ave for the repose of his soul,